Так где можно почитать, не поняла....указанный дневку закрыт

Sonnnegirl

экий человек скромный, вооще закрылся от мира (((( , с другой стороны при отсутствии интернета это по любому проблема. рекомендую читать у Агнесы в дневе:

- фики Tasselhof www.diary.ru/~oolatin/p165110055.htm

- фотки Китая и наши дискуссии на тему: www.diary.ru/~oolatin/p166462671.htm

- китайские няшки: www.diary.ru/~oolatin/p166262156.htm

- Сабантуй в Приморое (татаро-башкирский праздник): www.diary.ru/~oolatin/p163481358.htm (в комментах у нас пошла интересная дискуссия церкви vs храмы vs мечети в Приморье)

ENJOY

мерси. а ну как про Рокэ хороших фиков надыбаю...

Sonnnegirl

только ... это... учитывая особенности проживания человек не так испорчен как мы, так что зацените светлое и наивно-прекрасное

миленько, но не мое. про Рокэ два драбблика всего, а без него мне не интересно.

и да, светленько так.

Sonnnegirl

я понимаю Ваше разочарование, но перечитайте условия быта человека: для него фэнтези свет в окошке, а вокруг, похоже, сплошная тьма. в моем представление такое существование максимально приближено к условием если не ада, то сурового чистилища.

но перечитайте условия быта человека: для него фэнтези свет в окошке,

Да это понятно, просто независимо от причин, мне лично там только два уже упомянутых драббла интересны. Это ж не претензия автору, ни в коем случае...просто несовпадение интересов.

Что до сурового быта...То, что там описано, слишком ужасно, чтобы я поняла, как молодая девушка может это терпеть. Несмотря ни на какую скромность характера... И на Владивостоке свет кагбэ клином не сошелся.

Sonnnegirl То, что там описано, слишком ужасно, чтобы я поняла, как молодая девушка может это терпеть. Несмотря ни на какую скромность характера... И на Владивостоке свет кагбэ клином не сошелся.

тут Вы абсолютно правы но ... есть такой момент как ... my God, but you speak English!!! So there is no need for me to torture virtual keyboard in Russian!!! Rediscovered opportunities

so, anyway what I wanted to say is: there exists such definition as ESS - Effortless Sense of Superiority. There is probably a tiny proportion of population in the world who has it as innate but that would be 0.000001 or less per cent. The rest have it through upbringing. Boys in oriental societies, students of public schools in England, privileged well off layers of society in Russia and the States are a very good example. Mind you, I am not talking financial opportunities here but the imagined borders people construct (sub)consciously; these borders determine their world of existence since they indicate possibilities people may aspire to. The interesting thing is that these borders become reality since people who cannot think out of the box will not be able to break through it. It might sound all quite simple but in reality changing the vision of their entitlement for an adult is close to impossible. What I am actually trying to say is that the belief in opportunities and urge for action for the person is question might be significantly different from ours. Education (not just formal) is the only way to break through the barrier, otherwise the person is trapped and bound to exist in initial conditions. Well, I wonder whether I made myself clear at all.

Oh, I got your point, and even more - I agree with your vision of the problem. BUT. What I cant understand, is that EVEN material difficulties cant change that position in that kind of people. Because for me it is close to impossible to imagine someone can live like that being a young healthy person. If it comes to comfort issues - fuck the character problems. But in other hand, I can understand, that my standards are not necessary the same for others

Sonnnegirl

3 points here:

1) EVEN material difficulties cant change that position (by the way, did you mean «attitude» or «way of thinking» rather than «position» here?)

you know that it can be different (for you personally) but she does not. Well, of course she has heard about millionaires but she does not see it as a relevant reference for herself. Imagine how many people break through their social status at all; just few - and those who do often have certain background for doing so (eg if your parents were from Soviet intelligentsia you might have spent childhood in one room or even communal flat/never been abroad/never had a car or even landline phone in the family/gone to a very ordinary school but at the same time your parents would have taken you to concerts and exhibitions, encouraged you to read and study, taken you to trips around Soviet Union and supported you through years at university so that you had flat to live and bread to eat. Then you worked hard to win western scholarships and obtain certain qualifications which made it possible to get a well paid job and a mortgage. Well done, but still you had certain privileges in the past which helped you to advance in the present). Did I make the point clear? If you look back will you see any difference in your background and hers: difference which formed you current attitude to life and provided you with some practical skills for professional career or successful marriage?

2) if I asked you to name 3 things you believe you were entitled to what would it be? I would be extremely interested to hear but then of course you are not obliged to answer. What I am driving at is that hardly you would even think of entitlement to clean water or safety in the streets (to the degree of not been shot or raped in plain daylight in the middle of the city). And at the same time you have the privilege of having both and therefore taking it for granted: so that for you entitlement probably will be something else but these two points.

3) the character problems

thing is that is not about character, it is about self-confidence. And as I pointed out before this quality is not inborn - it is formed through education and upbringing. She (as might many other people) lacks it - but since she is a personal case now I am contriving a plan to see whether I can help at all. Even (oral) encouragement can help a great deal - this is what I am working on at the moment.

Its hard to formulate an answer in English, but I*ll try.

Of course, a family background is one of the main things in character and self-confidence formation, but I still wondering, how could it be, that such an awful conditions still are not enough for someone to change his/her life

or safety in the streets

Hey, I live in Russia! What safety are you talking about?,,,
I dont use public transport, dont walk alone and so on, never been in so called pure districts... because of the safety issues.

And I really understand, that I am a lucky girl - a have a wonderful parents, their social status always was and is high, I am their only child and the apple in the eye and so on. BUT. I know people, who didnt have such conditions as I had but still they are sucsefull and strong...
Why is somebody is able to step out of line and get out of box and others dont?..I dont know. God only knows

Sonnnegirl

1) please do not feel obliged to use English - you just offered me this freedom and I am using it since I type English fasted and it is more convenient for me. Just use Russian to respond if it is easier! We here are used to cross-lingual communication, sometimes having conversations with friends in English/French/Latvian (everyone using the language s/he is most fluent at) .

2) I did not mean to challenge you or reprimand for your social status - by all means no, forgive me if it sounded so! And I honestly believe that for analysis of any situation it is better to drop personal views/backgrounds and try to operate with abstract notions only. I am maybe not so skillful in doing so.

3)I dont use public transport

well, good you can afford it But see: you mention it as an issue, she probably would mention never getting out in the evening for the possibility of being shot/raped and I tend to believe her claims have even more justification. I might be wrong, of course.

4) dont walk alone

if I may ask: are you from Moscow? And how do you manage never to walk alone?

5) what are pure districts?

6)Why is somebody is able to step out of line and get out of box and others dont?..I dont know. God only knows

well, I disagree. Lomonosov is an exception - in this case it is God indeed who knows. But in many other cases these are certain pre-conditions. Can we make a quick case-study? Take one precise person from these people you know who are successful and strong and answer couple of questions:

- what is his/her first name (I need you to have a precise person in mind, hence the question)?
- age
- gender
- city in which the person spent childhood (possibility to attend different events/groups/places)
- school s/he went to (ordinary/specialized/in the centre/in the outskirts)
- travelling in childhood
- any clubs/sections person participated in

just answer that and let's see if we may conclude something

ps since I promised to advise on the language:

читать дальше- 'a' comes from 'one' so is never used with plural. Therefore the following phases are not formed correctly: 'an awful conditions' and 'a wonderful parents'
- expression is 'to be the apple of sb's eye', so this is not correct: the apple in the eye
- sucsefull: noun is success, adjective - successful

plz no offence! Your English is all clear to understand so these small remarks are just an attempt to be useful to you - at your own request

I did not mean to challenge you or reprimand for your social status - by all means no, forgive me if it sounded so!

Oh, no problem!

are you from Moscow? And how do you manage never to walk alone?

Раньше в Москве жили, с тех пор, как родился ребенок, мы живем за городом - минутах в 20 от Москвы.
насчёт моего одиночного хождения - я понимаю, что это прозвучит странно, но...вот просто так я одна нигде не бываю - в смысле, чтобы пешком просто по улицам идти...я вообще пешком только за границей хожу, да изредка с дайровскими друзями гуляю. А так меня либо возят, либо я иногда пользуюсь такси. Я боюсь одна по городу ходить - тупо пристает всякое мурло, нафиг мне это нужно. У меня рядом с домом два закрытых парк-отеля, если уж приспичит походить, я могу сделать это там.
Я далеко не самый мягкий и трусливый человек, но просто желания соприкасаться со всякими неэлегантыми формами жизни у меня нет и потому я их просто избегаю.

what are pure districts?

спальные районы. не знала, как сказать по англицки

насчёт примеров - тут такая штука, что люди с практически идентичным бэкграундом добиваются абсолютно разных результатов в жизни. у меня перед глазами есть примеры.

and thanks a lot for correcting my English!!!

а эта девочка, из владивостока...жалко мне таких людей, вот просто жалко...

1) спальный район города — residential district; dormitory district / suburb брит.; bedroom district амер.

I would choose residential district or suburbs.

2)что люди с практически идентичным бэкграундом добиваются абсолютно разных результатов в жизни.

that is of course true. But I wanted to demonstrate something else: for certain social success one normally needs some background which that lady lacks.

3) а эта девочка, из владивостока - если бы оттуда... из-под Лесозаводска (sic!)

из-под Лесозаводска (sic!)

(стыдится)
я помнила, что из какой-то тьмутаракани, название забыла

и вы можете спокойно на английском отвечать, даже если я сбиваюсь на русский! я понимаю лучше, чем говорю. у меня даже с родным языком так - понимать всё понимаю, а выдавить из себя пару слов - проблема.